Friday, April 22, 2011

Behind The Scenes Of Metro vs. DU Name Battle

(above) Lots of dirty laundry in the 23 pages of documents between DU & Metro

Some very interesting documents are available online for all to read.

The papers include legal letters, correspondence between Chancellor Coombe and Metro's President Jordan, documentation of DU's concerns and all sorts of interesting tidbits.
l.

35 comments:

dggoddard said...

Quite a few of the points made by the Chancellor, the DU Board of Trustees and attorneys' letters were mentioned by LetsGoDU readers in the previous articles and comments.

Anonymous said...

Metro State needs to demand a refund of the $25,000-$50,000 they paid Sector Brands for the consulting fee. Branding consultants aren't supposed to drag you through the mud.

Perhaps Metro could hire some DU lawyers to get the taxpayers money back.

Anonymous said...

Metro will step into anything related to DU now.

Anonymous said...

Metro can use this blog against DU.

"Metro State Scumbags Trying To Steal Our Name"

Anonymous said...

seriously...the scumbags comment was pretty wrong...just saying...

dggoddard said...

"Scumbags" refers to the branding company and Metro administrators that tried to poach on DU's reputation.

I always love when people can recite a headline or a comment, chapter and verse, made over a month ago and then claim "it was wrong."

Anonymous said...

it was wrong then and now...big deal when you are called on it...if it happened, it happened and there is nothing a dolt like you can do about it now.

you implied "scumbags" was in relation to anything and everything metro st. i still laugh that Du is no more selective than metro and you all act like you are going to harvard or stanford or yale or any of the multitude of schools who are vastly superior to Du.

Du is a horrible value when you consider that its not really an elite school despite having an elite price tag. people who attend Du piss away a lot of money for miniscule return.

Anonymous said...

7:03-

We have similar selectivity, but our students are much smarter, as the records show. Sure, it's not Harvard, but no one aside from you seems to pretend that anyone thinks it is. Get over yourself.

That said, our girls are soooo much hotter than yours. I'd say that's a hell of a return on investment.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:03:

You obviously don't understand college admissions or the concept of self-selection.

You are implying that since both schools have 70% acceptance rates that the student bodies are comparable - they are not.

There is a HUGE difference in the academic quality of the applicant pools between DU and Metro. DU is picking from a whole different bucket of kids than Metro does.

DU is admitting 70% of applicants from a self-selected national pool of mostly A and B+ students from the top 25% of their classes and with test scores in the top 15% of national incoming freshmen. DU has to admit 70% in order to fill a class of 1200 because the 9,000+ DU applicants are mostly all strong students and have many other top college offers.

In essence, DU is ranked in the top 5% of US universities (U.S. News #85 out of 2,500 four year schools) and is competing with the same accomplished kids who also want to get in to the 85 schools ranked above DU. So in the top 5% of these ranked schools, DU has to accept 70% of these top kids to fill its class.

Metro is taking 70% of the applicants from primarily local Denver area market, and has no problem filling its freshman class because most Metro applicants simply aren't being persued by other schools. That's not to say that there aren't good students at Metro, but the reality is that the applicant pools are apples and oranges at these two schools.

Anonymous said...

DU is a safety school and you all know it. You can certainly say the same about Metro but at least we don't have our noses in the air.

Anonymous said...

If DU is so worried about another school ruining their brand; then their brand isn't that good.

Napoleon complex.

CIS said...

DG -

I always appreciate your support for DU and the information you provide, which generally is limited to athletics. When you first posted the article about the potential "DSU" I also appreciated that, and you may recall I was the first to respond and subsequently emailed everyone at DU I could think of in protest.

I also mentioned at that time I did not approve of the title of your post "Metro State Scumbags Trying to Steal our Name". Throwing insults at Colorado College about hockey is one thing, calling a college with whom we have no bad blood and its students "scumbags" is not appropriate.

I know you argue you were referring to their consultant, the Metro board of directors, or whomever, but we all know that is not how it came across and it really doesn't matter who you were calling scumbags. It made DU alumni, students and supporters look bad.

As your blog becomes more and more popular, and moves into more political and social debate, I would respectfully ask that you present the DU community in a professional manner when it comes to such topics.

Ripping CC and North Dakota's hockey programs remains awesome. I also understand you can't control the posts made on the blog, but you can dictate the tone through your choice of words. Like it or not, you have become a representative of DU.

If you had it to do over again, I would wager you would have chosen a title much more similar to those you have used the last couple days.

As always, thanks for your hard work. LetsGoDU is becoming a tour de force! With great power comes great responsibility.....

Aluuum said...

What I find interesting is how many non D.U. types invade our site (Metro -N.DaGoona as two examples) and us D.U. people mind our own business and stay out of other school's business.
Interesting! Could it be envy? just asking.

cis said...

DG -

I always appreciate your support for DU and the information you provide, which generally is limited to athletics. When you first posted the article about the potential "DSU" I also appreciated that, and you may recall I was the first to respond and subsequently emailed everyone at DU I could think of in protest.

I also mentioned at that time I did not approve of the title of your post "Metro State Scumbags Trying to Steal our Name". Throwing insults at Colorado College about hockey is one thing, calling a college with whom we have no bad blood and its students "scumbags" is not appropriate.

I know you argue you were referring to their consultant, the Metro board of directors, or whomever, but we all know that is not how it came across and it really doesn't matter who you were calling scumbags. It made DU alumni, students and supporters look bad.

As your blog becomes more and more popular, and moves into more political and social debate, I would respectfully ask that you present the DU community in a professional manner when it comes to such topics.

Ripping CC and North Dakota's hockey programs remains awesome. I also understand you can't control the posts made on the blog, but you can dictate the tone through your choice of words. Like it or not, you have become a representative of DU.

If you had it to do over again, I would wager you would have chosen a title much more similar to those you have used the last couple days.

The truth is, non DU-types to come to this blog. LetsGoDU is becoming a tour de force! With great power comes great responsibility.....

Thanks for your hard work!

Anonymous said...

Safety schools are relative and the DU brand is fine. There are 10 applicants for every spot at DU, and the academic quality improves every year.

The reality is that 70% of college applicants go to their first choice school. It's only at the top 150 schools (out of 2,500 four year schools) where things are truly competitive for A and B+ students, and DU is tight in the middle of those top 150 schools. If we're a Safefy school for those who don't make the top 50, that's fine with me. There are still another 2,400 schools below us...

cis said...

Anon 7:03, I'll also add you look even worse coming onto a DU board ANONYMOUSLY to throw insults.

Either find something better to do with your time (like maybe support your own school - if you have one) or stop being a telephone tough-guy and put your money where your mouth is.

Go DU!

Anonymous said...

DU doesn't have a Napoleon Complex.

They are just protecting their brand that they have built for 150 years from uneeded dilution, and in doing so, are protecting the emotional and financial ivestment of its students, alumni and faculty. That's their job. They are looking out for all of us who are invested in the future.

All great brands protect themselves against competitive threats. That's a big part of makes them great brands.

Disney, Nike, the Olympics, Harvard, and Coke all vigorosly protect their brands, and if you don't believe me, just try to use similar names or marks for your own brand, or website, etc and see what happens - you'll get a C-and D letter very quickly.

Brands and reputations are valuable assets, and they need to be treated with great care, investment and protection.

Anonymous said...

I’m not sure the Napoleon Complex comment is completely accurate but you all need to get over yourselves. Many of the comments here and this argument in general seem to be driven by one thing. You’re all obsessed with being better than someone else. So DU is more selective and expensive than Metro. BFD!

I’m hung like a horse but I don’t feel obligated to rub that in the noses of my coworker’s family and friends.

Anonymous said...

This is a DU blog that was built to generate school pride, spirit and connection.

If you aren't into that, don't read it. This is the primary home for die-hard DU fans. You should expect to see DU bombast here, and when you visit our online 'house' and insult the DU fans who congregate here in their home environment, you can certainly expect them to defend themselves.

Tim in Los Angeles said...

OK, let's update the stats...

15,000 applications for the fall, 2011 freshman class of 1,150.

DU Accepted Student profile, fall, 2010
Middle 50%

SAT Composite - 1140-1320
ACT Composite - 25-30
GPA - 3.5 - 4.0

Anonymous said...

Great, we get it already. Turn the fricking page.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:07 sounds a little like Charlie Sheen.

dggoddard said...

CIS makes many good points in his criticism of the headline.

"Scumbags" is a strong word and was obviously insulting to the Metro State community.

It probably was a personal attack [which IMO is clearly wrong], but the Metro/DSU debate a serious issue as evidenced by all the ink it is receiving this week in the mainstream press.

Should we treat Metro State differently than CC, UND or our other athletic rivals? Interesting point, but these days sports, politics and life are merging throughout our society. Bond issues for sports stadiums is one example.

As another reader correctly pointed out, This is a DU-centric blog. Outsiders are welcome to read, post, disagree and criticize me ad infinitum.

Finally, regarding "professionalism." This is the easiest issue to tackle. The Denver Post and mainstream media are the professionals. Clearly bloggers are not professionals and should not be held to professional standards.

So to summarize, the headline crossed the line, I'm not apologizing and you made some great talking points, most of which I agree with. Please continue to read the blog and call me out when I screw up. :-)

"With power comes responsibility" - One of my all-time favorite quotes.

mexico said...

Haters gonna hate

cis said...

DG,

Thanks for responding. I'm glad you generally agree with me. The one thing you don't agree with (professionalism) I actually agree with your counterpoint.

No need to be professional here, but being civil is never a bad thing (except to North Dakota, fuck those guys).

That said, this is called the "LetsGoDU Hockey Blog". When discussing topics being addressed by the state legislature, perhaps a slightly tweaked tone is appropriate.

Seriously? said...

The bulleted agenda posted here says "that DU had less concerns with 'Denver State University' than 'Metropolitan State University of Denver.'" When the voting results came in, and the Trustees discussed them, they ALSO "considered DU's concerns and the fact that it favored the name 'Denver State University' over 'Metropolitan State University of Denver.'"

The name DU didn't want was NOT chosen. So why then did they turn their attention to the second name? The same one they said they had less concerns with?

Is DU just going to go after every name proposed? Unbelievable.

Anonymous said...

8:43

Being the lesser of two evils doesn't make something good. Both names are obviously disliked by DU, just one slightly more than the other. The fact that they dislike Denver State University slightly less than Metro State University of Denver doesn't mean anything because DU still clearly dislikes both options, and with good reason.

Metro State should just take the high road here and come up with their own identity instead of poaching DU's reputation. Then again, the Metro clan isn't exactly the brightest or most creative bunch so that may be expecting too much...

dggoddard said...

I would wager anything that DU is more opposed to the name "Denver State University" today.

Chancellor Coombe may well have not been opposed to "DSU" the 1st time he heard it, but the reaction from DU's alumni, students and perhaps trustees was immediate and resounding.

Its going to be easy for Metro's Trustees to find a new name that won't cause political and legal backlash.

Anonymous said...

Its tragic that Metro is located mere blocks from the State Capitol and will not be called Denver State.

Metro would have become Denver State if DU did not have a Napoleon complex.

That is truth.

Anonymous said...

Evidence DU has Napoleon complex:

Cal State San Diego (San Diego State)
UC San Diego
University of San Diego (private)

University of Chicago (private)
University of Illinois, Chicago
Chicago State University

University of Portland (private)
Portland State University

New York University (private)
City University of New York

Boston University (private)
Boston College (private)
University of Massachusetts Boston

Cal State Los Angeles (Cal State LA)
UC Los Angeles (UCLA)

City University of Seattle (private)
Seattle University (private)
Seattle Pacific University (private)

University of Houston
Houston Baptist University (private)

Anonymous said...

The residents of Denver could really give a crap about DU. DU has no brand that is self-evident to us longtime residents.

I have seen that DU people complain of a lack of community support. Ever wonder why? That "superior" DU education has yet to lead to the root problems of why the people of Denver choose to largely ignore DU.

dggoddard said...

DU's "brand" is national, and a majority of the harm done by Metro State changing its name would be done outside of Colorado.

Since 1997 DU has spent almost $400 million dollars in construction projects.

The University of Denver has over $400 million in revenue annually.

Factor in what the students, faculty and staff spend off campus. Then factor in the money spent by visitors to the university including parents, visiting teams, conference attendees, alumni and daily visitors to the university.

Property values have soared around DU as many people want to live near universities.

The net economic impact by the DU would easily be in the billions. DU contributes mightily to the Denver and Colorado economies.

Anonymous said...

Hey Anon 11:24, just because precedents exist, doesn't make them right or less confusing.

In many of the name scecarios you mentioned, people get very confused over schools with similar names in these cities.

Read the documents DU provided for more on this. DU is just sticking up for itself, as it should.

dggoddard said...

Denver Post editorial questions motives of Metro's name change.

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_17910902

Alison said...

I understand the need to promote DU pride on a DU blog, but repeatedly disparaging the hard-working, high quality students at an institution that has had 100 fewer years than you to develop a reputation and programs is a low blow.

Building yourselves up by tearing others down will never make you look good. And if it makes you feel good, all the worse for you in the long run.